February 7, 2004 : Million Dollar Gamblers Bad Joke.
Casino gambling message board quip costs online gambler a million dollars.
RTG powered online casino called the Hamptons have voided as I write a 1.3 million dollar Caribbean Blackjack 21 winner. The Hamptons casino initially started paying the big gambler around $4000 a week off the debt but alas the player decided to pop by the Casino Meisters posting forum. Signing up as the Pirateofc21 was the first bad move. Later the player made some rather gloating type comments about his big winning streak at the casino and obviously spoke the magic words. Exactly what those magic words were are not entirely clear but the casino have decided they are not going to pay the winner.
Talk of robot play have come to light which the casino expressly forbid use of in thier terms and conditions, but to date no actual proof of any wrongdoing by the player have surfaced. Gambling portal owners and gamblers alike have advised the player to put a sock in it, get a decent lawyer and stop posting on the boards completely. Pity the player ever posted to be honest. I have no idea if the player actually used a robot and while RTG or thier Casinos are not my cup of tea, I cannot rightfully accuse them of cheating this gambler in light of some of his posts at the Casino Meisters.
A quote from a long time respected message board poster and gambler mentioned "the player has unfortunately entered the Online Casino twilight zone". The unregulated nature of online gambling renders the posters comments as sadly all too true.
I will be keeping a sharp eye on developements on this one because the casino have yet to prove the player did anything wrong apart from some trash talk by a very happy gambler with a curious sense of humour.
Related links: casinomeister.com (the actual forum thread the player posted the comments in question)
Further debate casinomeister.com (players and industry folk thrash it out in the open)
Thread started by RTg's Mr Mccain
Thanks go to the Casinomeister Bryan Bailey
February 23, 2004 : 1.3 Million Dollar Casino Winner Dispute Update.
Written by HK Gambler. Just a gambling guy from Hong Kong who's words I love to read. Casino Fiasco / Update
Reproduced by kind permission of HK Gambler who first posted his thoughts at the Winneronlineforum (spelling errors and handwriting style left unedited)
There had been discussions over the past weeks regarding the fiasco. Sure this is the most concerning event I�ve ever read so far. Whether or not Pirate of Caribbean 21 would be able to collect his winnings in the end, he certainly has become the Legend of Century 21, even though it�s likely that he is going to pay a huge price.
I think Pirate is fundamentally a wise guy who does crazy & silly things. The silliest thing Pirate had done was to dare win big from an online casino. You can�t! Be they RTG, MG, Crypto or whatever. This is online gambling nature. Yeah people can win huge jackpots and got paid. Because jackpot money is accumulated out of players pockets, already made to be claimed. Casinos are set up to welcome you�cough... to lose big. They will seek every nook & cranny to escape the million dollar debts even if their pockets are deep enough. Try to imagine, the purpose of casino operations is for making a million, you see if they can write off a million that they lost, they have actually made one. That is, if Pirate had not made his �port� & �crew� posts, Hampton is certainly going to not pay him. Hampton was just trying desperately to find one excuse, by way of the slow process of weekly paying him. Lucky then for Hampton to have Pirate posted crazily. Even if they can�t find one, they make one.
This is human nature as well. Everybody can act like gentlemen when the money involved isn�t large enough. That�s it. So this time, Phoenician is praiseworthy to have paid Pirate neat & fast�Just in case they are losing like Hampton, they might be tempted to do the same. (oh, just wild guess, unfounded presumptions). Of course they might not have been as greedy & brainless as Hampton to have let Pirate bet $10,000's.
One important question is: Is RTG, as a software vendor who permits licenses to, and receives royalties from their licensees; who sells the whole business package of operating solutions ranging from the technical software, to support; financial processing; as well as marketing, held DIRECT & LEGAL responsibility to pay off Pirate in case Hampton fails to do so?
I think no. I know this view might not make myself popular. ONLY IF RTG & Hampton are in partnership, where they share some stated % of the entity�s profit and loss, then yes. In other words, Hampton, being themselves the owners & decision makers, are solely responsible for their debts. Other than themselves, no other should be legally binded to pay for their liabilities.
My analogy is that RTG & its licensees are like father & sons relationship. Once the sons are on the edge of fatality because of severe debts, the father would still be expected to step in to resolve, paying off in whole or in part. Not because the laws require him to, the reality or probably the morality does. Otherwise, his son dies which eventually will hurt the whole family.
That can explain why RTG stepped forward in 2002 to handle the debts of merlins, etc. and to receive complaints regarding other RTG casinos. But to unveil, they just worked for their own benefits under the reality. That time, RTG showed the world the ethics, won themselves some handclaps. This time, I hope RTG will do the same. Not saying they bear any direct or legal responsibility. Show us the morals again, the verve, the demeanor, the fatherhood. Exert the pressure real hard on Hampton, know you�ve done already. All in all, work out a justified plan to pay the legit (unless proven not) 1.3m winner at once, supposing RTG pays in part and/or grants loans to Hampton. It�s all for the holy name of online gambling, and for the priceless goodwill of RTG.
thanks HK, thanks also to Max
February 25, 2004 : 1.3 Million Dollar Gambling Fiasco - Joeyl's Conclusion.
Big money gamblers gambling in a Casino .. The Matador does not always win ... The Casino just lost.
I am jumping the gun on purpose. The casino need to pay the player and as soon as possible in my opinion. In my eyes the casino have not behaved impeccably but they can be forgiven and can emerge from this fiasco lighter in the pocket but stronger for the exposure.
You see after all of this if they pay up the 1.3 million dollars big gamblers will feel more comfortable gambling there than when Hamptons were virtually unheard of in the online gambling world.
The player did not use a robot in my opinion. What he did was figure he'd spotted a flaw in the gameplay and took full advantage. Whether he'd spotted a flaw in the game or even thought he noticed a pattern is immaterial as gamblers lose millions on hunches every day, 1 thing for sure was he grew balls of steel off of his hunch.
He sat down with his hunch, his game plan and he won loads all over the place, 20k here, 30k there and 10k at the other, he also cashed out without much problem. What was he to do now?.. Stop playing?.. Retire?.. Not likely.
He gambled on and on probably getting might lucky on a high variance game with a casino crossing thier fingers day by day hoping the high roller would do the lot. The casino made the fatal mistake of gambling with thier own games at too high stakes. The fact they asked the big gambler to wager another whole load more credits before he can cashout says it all. What were they to do with 250,000 dollar sessional swings up and down? What if he won 25 million? They trusted the game alright. They already owed him 6 years worth of payouts. Effectively the Pirate had won the casino.
The Pirate of Caribbean 21 said he would sell them a robot to beat the software out of Cobol. He might as well have said he could straighten up the Leaning Tower of Pisa with a well placed 21ft scaffolding tube and a block of wood.
This is over for me until the result of the player versus Hamptons casino, which I will update come the end game. I wish the player well and hope Hamptons realise it's just all in the game! The Matador does not always win ....
